🇺🇸United States @hestenet

I have sent a formal educational message and warning to the users referenced above and several others who appear to be senior members of the TATA Drupal team.

More maintainership is good, so hopefully they can respond by engaging more senior contributors, and/or starting by having the new folks establish a track record.

@jdleonard - thank you - looks like that page wasn't ready yet - so I've linked directly the trial instead

@krishnarp - the prevailing accessibility best practice for screen readers and keyboard navigation that we've followed for the last decade plus has actually been to make all links load in the same window rather than extra windows. If there is new documented accessibility research about that being different for external links like social links specifically, please let me know.

@poker10 - move the comparison cards to the top, and will make further edits in the child issue - thanks.

@everyone-concerned-with-page scale - you hopefully noticed some iterative, but targeted improvements to header, text, and margins on especially the top level hero components, but in a couple other places as well. My MR for this was merged by fjgarlin on my team this morning. Didn't want to do anything more dramatic, but now any individual component should fully fit on a 13" macbook screen at 100% zoom.

A top-level primary navigation bar, with non-navigable menu items... ugh. Instead these appear to be hover-triggered, animated mega menus or some such... might as well start taking side bets on whether these are going to result in seizures, or merely headaches.

🤔 The old D7 drupal.org menu (which we have had since at least 2017?) - is the same on all the points you reference here, though we are doing another pass on keyboard nav and looking at non-js fallback. You can still see this here: https://www.drupal.org/documentation →

I'm sad to see Drupal keeps doubling down on a destructive focus on neo-marxist "wokeism".

As a member of this community for the nearly 19 years, and CTO of the Drupal Association for the last 10, I will wear this xenophobic word salad as a badge of honor for the rest of my days. 🥇

To everyone who has been respectful, or even harsh but fair, thank you for your feedback. Many community members (with full time design, user experience, and accessibility backgrounds) have been involved through the whole process - and will continue to help our very small staff iterate and improve on this work in the open source spirit.

I appreciate the patience and encouragement from those who have offered it.

Once I complete an issue summary update - I expect to close this mega-issue in favor of focused child issues on the concrete feedback we can work to resolve.

@andrew.wang - I don't think that is related. Timeouts do happen sometimes, but we're not seeing alerts in our monitors that suggest it should be more frequent. If it's just happening on your dashboard and not on other areas of the site, maybe open a separate issue.

Some of the relevant permissions of the site moderator role include:

• Administer comments and comment settings
• Fasttoggle: Moderate comments
• Fasttoggle: Moderate posts
• Fasttoggle: Moderate users (no user data access)
• Delete contents of any file attachment
• Use the Full HTML text format
• Administer content
• Access the content overview page

Some less relevant, but not enough to justify a whole new role - especially as if they are maliciously updated with abusive content being able to edit them is in fact relevant:

• Administer all documentation guides
• Administer news feeds
• Book listing: View any unpublished content
• Book listing: Create /Edit any/ Delete
• Case study: Create /Edit any/ Delete
• Page: Create /Edit any/ Delete
• Contributor skill: delete
• Contributor role: delete
• Documentation Guide: Create /Edit any/ Delete
• Documentation Page: Create /Edit any/ Delete
• Hosting listing: Create /Edit any/ Delete
• Organization: Create /Edit any/ Delete
• Projects: Create /Edit any/ Delete
• Forum topics: Create /Edit any/ Delete
• Taxonomy terms: Create /Edit any/ Delete

Importantly it has no elevated user administrator permissions, and therefore no access to PII that might be on user profiles.

@kimble - a second round of scale adjustments is definitely very high on the priority list, after some key functional issues and bug fixes, and now that we're back from holidays and are going to have Drupal CMS launched next week.

hestenet → created an issue.

Added a 'how to support ddev' message

hestenet → created an issue.

Latest policy addition may be adjusted pending: https://www.drupal.org/project/site_moderators/issues/3498008 🌱 Policy: Grant Site Moderator role to CWG Conflict Resolution Team Active

Updating to add policy proposed in: https://www.drupal.org/project/site_moderators/issues/3498008 🌱 Policy: Grant Site Moderator role to CWG Conflict Resolution Team Active

hestenet → created an issue.

Thank you everyone for your additional comments. I'll provide another update of recent and in-progress fixes as well as triage the additional feedback here in the new year.

hestenet → created an issue.

Thank you @thursday_ bw - every couple months I try to get the transcripts all caught up. Would like to do it more often.

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Made a provisional MR for the change - which currently fails check-versions, but I guess we see after this release happens and other things are branched: https://git.drupalcode.org/issue/gitlab_templates-3493016/-/pipelines/36...

hestenet → made their first commit to this issue’s fork.

phenaproxima → credited hestenet → .

hestenet → created an issue.

hestenet → created an issue.

Specbee's work to improve their internal contribution standards seems to have been working - I haven't had an escalated issue from one of their staff since this discussion 5 months ago.

Closing this issue for now. It can be re-opened if and when that is necessary.

Thanks to everyone involved, and especially @shefali for leading the internal charge on contribution strategy.

I have sent an updated nudge to org leadership.

I have sent both an individual education and a message to organization leadership.

seantwalsh → credited hestenet → .

seantwalsh → credited hestenet → .

In reviewing some of the recent issue history for Innoraft here: https://www.drupal.org/node/2145877/issue-credits →

Contribution practices look like they are much improved!

Thanks to the Innoraft team for working on their internal processes.

We can re-open this issue if we discover any other issues that need further education or support.

Update

The following pages are now live:

• https://www.drupal.org
• https://www.drupal.org/download →
• https://www.drupal.org/drupal-cms →
• https://www.drupal.org/about/11 →
• https://www.drupal.org/get-started →
• https://www.drupal.org/about/overview/technical →
• https://www.drupal.org/why-drupal →

We have made a *quite a few* updates based on the feedback in this issue and elsewhere, both large and small. There are also still some issues outstanding that we are working to improve.

Our general philosophy is:

Each page won't be perfect as it goes live, but as long as we feel it is an improvement on what it is replacing we'll proceed with the roll out and make iterative improvements.

I have updated the issue summary with notes on what we've worked on so far.

There has been additional feedback that I have yet to triage into the IS. I do intend to do that.

This is actually deliberate, for a couple of reasons:

There are some technical reasons why new.drupal.org will run in parallel with www.drupal.org for a while - while content exists in both places.

We’re definitely concerned about the ranking of the new site as pages move. Having both D7 & modern Drupal coexist on www.drupal.org was our first choice, but routing the asset & API paths to make the pages complete is not something we can do on the timeline we’re being asked to deliver. For example, I think D7 & modern Drupal have the same Views autocomplete API path, so that can’t be routed reliably. A subdomain is more straightforward than a subdirectory for us

You can think of it a bit like the old.reddit.com vs new.reddit.com, except we are avoiding duplicated content, for example:
eg: https://www.drupal.org/about/11 → now redirects to https://new.drupal.org/about/11, so there aren’t two pages with the same content.

As sections are migrated they are being 302 redirected and we're managing this in Google Site Owner Tools. Once all the content areas are fully migrated www. will take over fully.

nicxvan → credited hestenet → .

My intent was for it to be scoped to #1 in this summary

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hestenet → created an issue.

hestenet → created an issue.

I've updated the button. Thank you!

hestenet → created an issue.

Closing this issue for now - can be reopened the next time an active educational message or warning is needed.

That isn't necessarily a final opinion btw - just the initial feedback I received, will circle back if I hear more.

This has been raised to the provisional new DA Innovation Working Group lead for input and consideration - but the current thinking is that it doesn't necessarily add value for the DA itself - as we already have tools and process for fundraising in more traditional ways. Folks are not convinced that it would really increase the overall engagement in fundraising, but possibly just create a confusing landscape of where to do fundraising.

This might be better served with an experimental, community organized kick-off to see if it has legs.

This has been raised to the provisional new DA Innovation Working Group lead for input and consideration for the DA's engineering roadmap. I will let this group know when I hear back.

gusaus → credited hestenet → .

I agree with the bump to major.

There is an option issue in Mozilla's tracker: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1925236

gábor hojtsy → credited hestenet → .

gábor hojtsy → credited hestenet → .

This would be helpful for Drupal.org's site migrations and the time period that we have Modern Drupal and D7 running in parallel.

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Updating for keycloak process

hestenet → created an issue.

hestenet → created an issue.

Thanks folks! As @fjgarlin mentioned - part of de-emphasizing the all organizations view was to further emphasize the service providers who are part of the DCP program. The integrity and magnitude of the reward for being both project and financial contributors is important

... but of course - the all organizations view doesn't just show service providers, it also shows end-users and a variety of other types of organizations.

There's good reason for people to want to be able to see how those types of organizations are contributing, to evaluate potential employers, or to find providers in countries that don't have any DCPs.

Navigating that isn't necessarily difficult but it is delicate - so I may need to regroup with some of the board stakeholders involved in managing the DCP program and with some of the other leadership folks on the DA side.

Either of the proposals above (a more prominent button/link - or - a placement in the main menu somewhere) might work - just want to make sure everyone who has put thought into that program has thought it through and weighed in.

I'll report back.

hestenet → created an issue.

gábor hojtsy → credited hestenet → .

This user has been temporarily suspended until they respond to my outreach:
https://www.drupal.org/u/sunil-jolapara →

I have also applied a negative 200 credit penalty for a minimum of 30 days and sent a notification to the company.

I will work with them from here based on their next reply.

@deviantintegral

Thanks for the several points of feedback.

Re: # of Drupal sites, we have more reliable data than any of the web crawler based tools like BuiltWith or Wappalyzer in the form of the usage stats we get when sites phone home for updates:

https://www.drupal.org/project/usage/Drupal →

Lots of great feedback from many people in this thread. I won't respond to each one here, but will pass on to everyone involved and create child issues where needed.

Thank you all!

I'm very glad to see that most feedback is 'this is great, but we can make it better' instead of in fundamental disagreement with the direction.

@e0ipso - Thanks for the feedback.

I'll quickly address 2 points, but I think it'd be prudent for larger discussions of any feedback items to branch off until full child issues if needed.

Re: the companies we choose to represent Drupal, esp Nestlé. On a personal level I have similar concerns, and I think it's important to question who we choose to associate the Drupal brand with. On a technical level it's a hugely impressive case study in scale, editorial process, and internationalization - so I can understand why it was chosen. I think this is worth escalating to folks working on content for additional thoughts. Appreciate it being mentioned.

Re: "Fortune 500" and the implied emphasis on the enterprise. It's interesting b/c I've been fending off concerns recently that somehow the Starshot/DrupalCMS means Drupal is not for the enterprise anymore. From both ends folks seem to think it's mutually exclusive, which is missing the forest for the trees, IMO.

But I do believe we can probably find a way to speak to both audiences, and importantly, give community contributors a reason to be proud to participate.

Maybe something like... "putting the power demanded by the fortune 500 in the hands of non-profits, community organizers, higher education, government, and small business alike."

@rkoller, thank you very much for investing so much time in giving feedback.

CTA buttons should accommodate longer text

In CTA buttons, any text longer than about 8-12 characters has weird line wrapping behavior.

→

From @b_man →

Image overlap: positioning should be adaptable to more image sizes

Images in the standard dimensions expected for the hero component break properly at various desktop widths and mobile sizes, however, images that fall outside of those dimensions can end up with content overlap.

Feedback from @pameeela

Content: Use consistent sentence case

We should be using consistent sentence case in the content:

→

Overall scale

The current overall scale of heading sizes, text sizes, images, etc is perhaps a little bit too big. (However, in general it's really nice to be fully utilizing more screen space - and we should lean into that! With basic content types even moreso than landing pages).

I'm benchmarking based on the standard 14inch Macbook Pro, which I think is a pretty good representative sample of the current standard laptop screen size.

→

Here's what it looks like at 67% zoom, where the full first component is above the fold:
→

hestenet → created an issue.

Ready for an initial deployment of this MR for (very rough) demo content for: /home, /get-started, /drupal-cms, /downloads, /try-hosting

hestenet → made their first commit to this issue’s fork.

hestenet → created an issue.

hestenet → created an issue.

hestenet → created an issue.

Re: breadcrumbs

There is a mock for a 'standard' page (non-landing page) in the Figma with breadcrumbs - not needed for the first target pages, but...

In terms of including the responsible parties in this:

So from a technical point of view:

• The announcement feed content is posted as a blog entry to: https://www.drupal.org/about/announcements/blog →
• So either a DA staff member or core team member could do that part.

BUT

• There is an extra step to publish the JSON feed (an extra safety net) - that only a DA engineering team member can do <-- so that's probably the role we should mention.

Historically I've been doing all this, but I'm not the only empowered to do so.

kristen pol → credited hestenet → .