Use DDEV also for Evaluator guide

Created on 1 November 2023, 11 months ago
Updated 27 December 2023, 9 months ago

Problem/Motivation

Currently the Evaluator guide recommends installing PHP separately (as no more is needed to run Drupal with the "quick-start" command). As part of #3398293: Consolidate local development environment documentation to recommend DDEV a discussion was started about whether using DDEV also for evaluation is the way to go.

Proposed resolution

Discuss the proposal and reach consensus. Update the Evaluator guide if necessary.

📌 Task
Status

Active

Version

9.0

Component

Correction/Clarification

Created by

🇳🇴Norway hansfn

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Comments & Activities

  • Issue created by @hansfn
  • 🇳🇴Norway hansfn

    Reposting excerpts from my comments on #3398293: Consolidate local development environment documentation to recommend DDEV :

    I don't think we should recommend DDEV instead of a "simple" PHP install. DDEV isn't that easy to install ... I think we tend to forget since we already have working Docker setup and more. And DDEV on Windows isn't straight forward. [...] I have added a tip (about DDEV) in the "What's next section" of the Evaluator guide now. [...] Installing on Windows is downloading a zip file - made that clearer in EG now.

    I do understand that just "downloading a zip file" isn't always true - or simple - but DDEV with it's Docker / WSL dependency is intrusive. Is it interesting to compare numbers - size on disk and so on?

    I think an important question is who we think the evaluator is. I don't know, but I assume a typical web developer might already have PHP - no extra installation needed. A typical site builder / "no code" enthusiast might not be very eager to download and install a lot of software just to evaluate (before buying hosting).

  • 🇩🇰Denmark ressa Copenhagen

    For the evaluator persona, who could be all kinds, such as project leaders, investors, somebody looking for a CMS system as a shop owner, for their developers to use, etc. I think we should aim at the lowest technical knowledge requirements for maximum inclusivity, to lessen the risk of driving away potential users, or decision makers.

    With that angle, requiring DDEV and the accompanying Docker fiddling would be too much, in my opinion. Better to stick to just have PHP as requirement, and then use the Quick start command.

    Having said that, after the "intro install PHP bit", we could consider adding a sentence about the Docker-based DDEV option exists, for the technically savvy users?

    PS. While we're discussing Drupal Quick Start Command, it has a tendency to freeze hang after a few minutes. It would be great to get that sorted out before too long.

  • 🇳🇴Norway hansfn

    Having said that, after the "intro install PHP bit", we could consider adding a sentence, that the Docker-based DDEV option exists, for the technically savvy users?

    In addition to the tip that I added in the "What's next" section? Or instead of? Anyway, that part of the discussion isn't important / hard.

  • 🇩🇰Denmark ressa Copenhagen

    I missed that it was already mentioned, but that looks great. At first I thought it should be right after the PHP install section, but the current placement works well.

  • 🇮🇹Italy apaderno Brescia, 🇮🇹
  • 🇮🇹Italy apaderno Brescia, 🇮🇹

    I apologize: That page is not generated from the Official Docs project anymore. It is now a freely editable page.

  • 🇺🇸United States eojthebrave Minneapolis, MN

    One of the original goals of the evaluator guide was to make it easy to throw away when you're done. #2993155: Draft "Evaluator Guide" Outline & Guide . Versus the local development guide which currently recommends ddev where the expectation is you're spinning up a site with the intent of coming back again tomorrow and doing more.

    And I think at that time anyway the agreement was that installing Docker + DDEV meant it was no longer easy to just throw everything away when you're done. That said, I also think there's an argument to be made for differentiating between an evaluator who just wants to see what Drupal looks like and poke around in the UI a little (https://simplytest.me ...) versus I guess an evaluator who wants to spend a day or two poking around at some contributed modules and custom code and is looking for something that's a little more permanent than single use. And for whom tooling like Docker, etc. is likely already at least somewhat familiar.

  • 🇳🇴Norway hansfn

    Just for the record: I created a separate issue - #3399873: Evaluate the whole idea of the Evaluator guide - where I basically say that installing anything locally, isn't easy. I tested a lot on Windows. I use WSL2 + Docker + DDEV myself, but I tried to follow our own advice about quick local installs and it wasn't really easy / robust. I tested other options too.

    I have already added the issue as a related issue, but commenting in case that was hard to notice.

  • 🇹🇭Thailand Nick Hope

    As someone going through the process of transitioning from (a modified) Acquia Dev Desktop to DDEV, I can say that it has not been straightforward at all. There is a learning curve, especially for Windows users who don't already have WSL2 installed (DDEV currently steers Windows users towards WSL2).

    I added a reference to simplytest.me on the Evaluator guide. I have no idea why the simplytest.me page itself doesn't tell you what the admin Username and Password are, so I added those too.

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