You obviously didn't get it - I was trying to be courteous, friendly, helpful and even after you increasingly became aggressive
I tried to convey to you that a more constructive way is possible.
The friendlier I am the more you seem to attack further - so since you accuse me of playing the victim card,
let me turn around and tell you that at this very moment you are doing all the things you accuse me of:
- You are the only one ranting here,
- the one who needs to reread the thread is you,
- and the time you've spend to needlessly attack me could have been spent much more constructively.
Whenever you point with a finger at others 3 fingers point at you.
Maybe you just are a kid which would excuse your behaviour; Else work on your ego and humbleness.
Thanks for helping me to walk away from Drupal for good ;-)
... grammar policing is as stupid as your attacking me for merely bringing something politely up to the attention of Drupal,
and yes, I also posted it under the ludwig thread in order to reach developers.
I don't understand why you started to become aggressive to me 2 posts away after all I did was making a point.
It is not my problem whether Drupal wants to keep living in their own elitist bubble.
Yes, you are a volunteer, and yes I also volunteered information - did not ask you for any help in my last point I made,
so I ask you to be as courteous to me as you like to be treated.
Anyway, I gave Drupal a feedback and tried to help in the tiny bit I could;
and before this escalates needlessly it is time for me to move on and leave you to it.
Thanks to all volunteers who helped in the forum,
but the biggest heroes are the programmers who put years of work into this massive project.
I might revisit Drupal after version 11 is out; to see if it an auto-updater is implemented by then,
and whether it suits me and the people I will have surrounded myself with by then.
You see, my point was: If Drupal becomes more attractive this way it will also attract more developers,
because I intend to create an individual portal and therefore build specific php-modules with others,
but that only makes sense if it runs easily everywhere, not just on webspace which allows for composer installs.
All the best, to all of you.
Well that's why I am talking to you.
On one hand you tell me to talk to the developers - yet I bothered to come here to talk to the drupal community.
I could have just left you all to your own Drupal universe - yet I come to bother to help the community out of its bubble.
Where else do you want to post my concerns?
The rudeness of your reply only proves my point that computer nerds have no sensibility for handling user-concerns.
Too often I had this issue -the more professional computer specialists are, the more their mere binary thinking wipes out the emotional shades in life - not even to talk about health-issues or traumata.
To illustrate to you the rigidity of the binary black and white approach:
Would I treat you in the same condescending way I would have replied:
"What do you mean by you are endless rant...? It's *your, not *you're. Learn Grammar before you talk to me!"
You might have replied that you aren't a native speaker,
but then I could reply to you that I also am not - and had a stroke and 2 cerebral haemorrhages which makes it difficulty for me at times to wrap my head around things.
Thanks for your reply, devad, which I just saw a week later.
For anyone with Drupal update problems I would like to point out here that my impression as a Drupal-layman is that the Drupal community seems to live in their own high castle - maybe even deliberately.
After months of trying to install and update Drupal tediously with composer on a local xampp-apache to then upload the thousands of files manually in vain - and after trying a multisite finally having given up on Drupal alltogether
I installed wordpress, phpBB-forum and prestaShop
and the first mail I got a second after the wordpress installation was:
Howdy! Your site has been updated automatically to WordPress 6.3.2.
No further action is needed on your part.
If Wordpress can do it fully automatically even in the background I see no reason for Drupal not being able to do the same.
Yes, there are Drupal-dependencies, but so are there in wordpress.
So what do you - as a Drupal person - think about this tedious "composer-only" update process?
Don't you think Ludwig should be revived and improved to work as good as Drupal ?
Don't you want Drupal to be more prominent in the world of CMS?
.. in all those years.
Sometimes I even got the impression as if the Drupal community deliberately wants to live in their own high castle to exclude common folks.
After months of trying to install and update Drupal tediously with composer on apache to then upload the thousands of files manually in vain - and finally having given up on Drupal I installed wordpress, phpBB-forum and prestaShop and the first mail I got a second after the wordpress installation was:
Howdy! Your site has been updated automatically to WordPress 6.3.2. No further action is needed on your part.
If Wordpress can do it fully automatically even in the background I see no reason for Drupal not being able to do the same.
Yes, there are Drupal-dependencies, but so are there in wordpress.
Thanks for your reply,
but for the record (to hopefully be heard somewhere in the Drupal-community)
It is the fact that no one in all those years came up with the idea to continue the good work Ludwig has done and to update automatically.
After all, Ludwig has nearly done that and I see no reason why this should not long be in the core installation of drupal.
Things would be so much easier and accessible for so many more people.
All the best - and thanks for your previous support - I just needed to vent what many may feel.
This thread is a good example of programmer's way to handle human laymanship.
- Very competent and helpful advice
- yet unappreciative of a layman's learning-curve
- sprinkled with demotivating suggestions or insinuations, such as:
- Use XAMPP with composer locally is unlikely to work <- demotivating
- the bargain basement hosting services you seems to be attracted to <- insulting to call me a penny pincher
(the hosting service so far had the best customer service I ever experienced;
additionally I am on social benefit and can neither afford to even pay twice as much for their composer choice,
not even to mention 10 times as much for your expensive choices)- and in the end you dump me in the pool of DUMs - I mean I worked since this entire year on setting up a new OS, xampp, got through drupal issue after another, etc. all in vain because new problems arise -and I did not dump Drupal because I wanted to have a system with seemingless user-experience which can serve as a website, forum and webshop for the same users.
It seems to me that programmers require users to be on their nerd-level, like "oh let's require everyone to use a third party tool such as composer";
and not even one of you comes up with the idea to maybe extend Ludwig up to the level that it works like composer.
I don't understand this - you people really seem to want to create an tech-elitist community instead of catering to userfriendliness.
The irony of this approach is that on one hand you told me of for looking for bargains - driving me into the commerce of hosted drupal sites; and on the other hand you don't actually act like a commercial firm which would do their best to make their products userfriendly.
I see a discrepancy in the Drupal-agenda there and deeply regret having spend my last money on the webspace and my life-energy on a complex CMS - both of which I might abandon now (maybe together with my entire agenda to create a website).
After all it is much easier to continue living on the dole and get drunk than having ambitions.
For someone who payed optimistic 3 years ahead for webspace which turns out to have not composer-ability,
you say that I should either abandon the webspace or Drupal, because I dcould not update the proper way?
I find this "composer-or-nothing" insistence from Drupal the killer of Drupal itself, because I see many people like me who did struggle for ages to first set up drupal, then being constantly nagged by it about composer, then finding out that the own hoster does not provide that, then setting up xampp only to follow VMs advice to install Drupal with composer locally and upload it and then be told by experts like you that this would not work in the long run anyway.
Seriously - I feel totally demotivated and inclined to throw my 9 months of Drupal-learning - and maybe even my entire web-presence away, because my plan was to have completed an entire website in this time - not to have to fiddle around again and again and again because of adverse circumstances.
I did actually listen to you, VM months ago, recommending to me to build a site locally with composer and then update it online.
Unfortunately I had tons of troubles with xampp and because the update is so complicated in Drupal I tried also to build a multi-site within one Drupal installations.
All that took me months, so I hope that this time it is working.
Thanks for your help, gisle and VM.
As I said, I don't have composer on my webspace,
so I installed xampp mainly to be able to update with composer and then upload files again.
Since this did not work straight away (because the settings.php can never be replicated exactly on the localhost and online for example)
I was on the verge of dropping Drupal alltogether but decided to rather update manually online than not using drupal at all anymore.
For any other beginners, reading this thread, this is how I update:
0. **Download and Extract:**
I downloaded the latest release as a tar (zip was too large to upload and got a timeout)
and did upload the tar file via FTP into my webspace.
1. **Backup:**
- Meanwhile I made Backups of both files and database.
- You optionally may copy modified files like .htaccess or composer.json;
but since I had no special modification I omitted that step.
I simply did double the online-folder of my current drupal-installations to second one (with the more current name. (old one was "SeptemberDrupal" new one "Drupal10.1.4")
2. **Maintenance Mode:**
- You may in to Drupal and put the site into maintenance mode.
I did not do that - instead I simply updated the new copied folder (which is not seen publically yet)
3. **File Removal:**
In the new doubled up folder I removed
a.) 'core' and 'vendor' directories
b.) and files in the top-level directory, keeping 'modules', 'profiles', 'sites', 'themes' directories.
4. Then I did paste the rootfiles, core and vendor directories from the new installation folder into the cleared renamed copy of your working site.
4. **Settings.php (if needed):**
Optionally sometimes an update includes changes to web/sites/default.settings.php or default.services.yml files. This will be noted in the release notes.
- Backup and update settings.php if changes are required.
(I compared both settings.php: no changes were required for me,
so I could skip that step, but made shure that the "default" folder above the seettings.php including the settings.php file are only readable.
--- I only can do the rest tomorrow once my domain redirects/
5. Using my browser, I will run update.php by visiting http://www.example.com/update.php (replacing www.example.com with your domain name).
This did update the core database tables.
6. **Verification:**
- Check status and functionality through the browser.
7. **Maintenance Mode Off:**
- Disable maintenance mode. (did not have to do that , but instead directed my domain to the new folder)
8. **Cleanup:**
- Remove the new uploaded Drupal release.
For the rest of us, Drupal 10.4 is not yet available. Drupal 10.1.4 is the most recent release.
You passed the test :D
Ok, I cleared the cache but the problem still occurs, so I do the manual update according to
Updating Drupal core manually →
My only question now is:
I can either use the download file tar from the 10.1.4 release, or create that new version on my localhost with composer.
Either way, I have to update it manually online.
However, I discovered that the downloaded Drupal versions are a little bit different than the composer-created ones
(the folder hierarchy is a bit different, for example the vendor and core, modules, profiles, core and themes directories being in the webfolder of the downloaded tar file whilst composer dreates those folders in the root.
Does that matter, and all that counts is that I treat I replace the core and vendor folders, or does this have consequences?
After @gisle's warning , but having a hoster which dose not provide composer, I found the ludwig automatic update module.
So giving it a shot, I downloaded the Ludwig tar, uploaded it and it instantly was available for activation.
After that I was asked to update the database - so I clicked my way through it (without having to change anything),
and - like a miracle - I automatically now seem to have updated to Drupal 10.4 which is great.
The only problem so far I see is when I change theme settings:
I can change the theme and it works, but after changing anything ( I tried this with 3 different themes),
I am directed from ...en/admin/appearance/settings/myTheme to
...en/admin/appearance/settings/myTheme again, but
with a long waiting time after which the browser said:
" Hmmm… can't reach this page - The connection was reset."
So it seems the update work like a charm with Ludwig, but not everything works as expected.
Does anyone have any idea why this could be the case?
I really would like for Drupal to continue an automated process like Ludwig - implementing it into their core.
After all - updating is why mere mortals like me nearly dropped using Drupal - this would make a huge difference for Drupal to be more user-friendly.
So giving it a shot (due to my hoster not providing composer), I downloaded the Ludwig tar, uploaded it and it instantly was available for activation.
After that I was asked to update the database - so I clicked my way through it (without having to change anything),
and - like a miracle - I automatically now seem to have updated to Drupal 10.4 which is great.
The only problem so far I see is when I change theme settings:
I can change the theme and it works, but after chaning anything (in 3 different themes),
I am directed from ...en/admin/appearance/settings/myTheme to
...en/admin/appearance/settings/myTheme again, but
with a long waiting time after which the browser said:
" Hmmm… can't reach this page - The connection was reset."
So it seems the update work like a charm with Ludwig, but not everything works as expected.
Does anyone have any idea why this could be the case?
So giving it a shot (due to my hoster not providing composer), I downloaded the Ludwig tar, uploaded it and it instantly was available for activation.
After that I was asked to update the database - so I clicked my way through it (without having to change anything),
and - like a miracle - I automatically now seem to have updated to Drupal 10.4 which is great.
The only problem so far I see is when I change theme settings:
I can change the theme and it works, but after chaning anything (in 3 different themes),
I am directed from ...en/admin/appearance/settings/myTheme to
...en/admin/appearance/settings/myTheme again, but
with a long waiting time after which the browser said:
" Hmmm… can't reach this page - The connection was reset."
So it seems the update work like a charm with Ludwig, but not everything works as expected.
Does anyone have any idea why this could be the case?
On their Ludwig page they only provided a composer install,
but when clicking on
ludwig 2.0.6 | Drupal.org →
, I saw that they actually provide alternative download files.
!
So do you think that updating with Ludwig is easier than a manual update of replacing the core and vendor folders? I ask, because I am on the verge of updating without composer.
Maybe VM's comment was valid 2 years ago,
but now, ironically, one needs composer to install Ludwig in order not to need composer.
And to do that on webspaces without composer, one has to install xampp, which in turn opens a total new can of worms of issues.
I just want to add this for people who search for a simple solution without the risks gisle rightly mentioned:
- In phpMyAdmin go to your chosen table to "structure" (German "Struktur"),
- on the bottom of that page (below all tables) tick the "select all" option to affect all tables,
- then choose "replace table prefixes" (German: "Tabelenpräfix ersetzen"),
- in the popup field enter in the top <yourCurrentPrefix> at the top (example "ba4d82_" - the letters which stand before each table)
- and in the bottom (for the field you want to replace your prefix with) enter literally nothing.
Then in sites/default/settings.php of your drupal installation in the bottom array change the following
$databases['default']['default'] = array (
[... your settings],
'prefix' => '',
[... your settings]
],
-------
Local this works instantly - online your phpMyAdmin may take several attempts for all tables to be prefixed
(hence I did change a bunch of tables at the time)
Works like a charm.
Good luck!
Thanks for your help, Gisle, to reply and close all your points but add one more:
- I installed it myself - first uploaded the files created locally with composer,
then used the Drupal installer,
and if I am not mistaken, I didn't even see in the installer an option for a prefix.
Me being a beginner, I could have not even known how to add a prefix,
plus my prefix clearly was machine generated (not self explanatory as I would have done it).
So I did not add one but can ask my provider if they have some "security" settings on their end. - Good to know, that there's no prefix by default.
- Thanks for your advice not to use prefixes. I won't do it then, because it took me ages to setup my first Drupal site and me naively believing to now go the extra mile and move on to a multi-site had huge troubles for weeks due to ChatGPT giving me wrong advice occasionally (which even destroyed my xampp).
Hence I won't go for any experiments anymore. - Ah right, no index.php - I got confused with the Multipage approach where I needed index.php files for each subfolder.
So I only will go for the settings.php and the .yml files.
Are those all to be found in the theme folder? Or are they spread around throuought the Drupal Galaxy?
I will try to create one online and try to replicate that offline. - Finally my question: if the database already was created with a prefix, is it possible to modify it again to delete the prefixes?
(Is there an SQL command to strip the table names of this specific prefix?)
Thank you again!
Thanks for your probably accurate advise to let go, Jaypan and F.Kelly.
But since now I have the feeling of "nearly having accomplished the installation" and even being willing to create a multi-page,
I might give it a few more shots in the hope to finally make it.
If after the time I payed for my shared hosting did not yield the hoped for results I simply won't renew my contract anymore.
With appreciation and grattitude to both of you and the entire Drupal community !
Just to let the Drupal Community know:
Unless you make Drupal more userfriendly I think you can watch the train of wordpress running by you, because literally any part-time-web-designer I know nowadays cobbles together a wordpress-site for a fortune, but no one understands Drupal.
The only reason I wanted to use Drupal is for its function as a portal software in the future, but since this entire year (8 months now) I am tediously installing drupal, addding a database, configuring the settings, choosing a theme, and trying to simply update it on the way whenever the software naggs me to do so.
This upgrade was a true horror show because the composer process did require me to set up a local server with xampp, then to install composer in the right directory, upgrade it and then upload it to the server (which does not allow for composer);
and in the process I actually lost my entire database (even though I did not even touch it),
and yesterday had tremendous troubles with my ftp upload, so I told my hoster about it.
Their response was:
"Is there no function in Drupal to directly load an update? It's quite cumbersome this way, as you have to first download it to your own computer and then upload it to the FTP again."
And I have to give them that this system seems really user unfriendly what Drupal is doing here.
I will try to turn this site into a multi-website for the simple reason that I can not stand those tedious upgrade-processes anymore and want at least to do it for 3 websites at once.
So if any of you developers read this and are asking themselves how they could contribute to this great open source cms I would strongly recommend to you: PLEASE make Drupal user friendly!!!